no tarps ?

no dunnage

How many yards can that mixer haul?  Tandem tandem with a dual booster axle wow!!

you dont have to tapr a pump and if ground conditions apply you dont have to put down dunnage that is what the pads are for. but you can go on and sit on your high horse and talk chit

I know that some (all?) of you are tired of hearing about the proper ammount of cribbing under your outrigger pads. This is a classic example.

The pic is of a 47m Schwing pump; nice unit. It is sitting on dirt. It only has pads under the outriggers. That is NEVER acceptable to the ACPA, Schwing America, or the ASTM. NEVER. So it is not a high horse that I am on when I mention the fact that this machine is out of compliance. What it IS that I am on is a concerted effort to make everyone understand the facts; and the dangers of non compliance with nationally recognized safety standards.

You ask "Why do you keep harping on the same old sxxt?" The answer is very simple.

"Because we continue to make the same old mistakes."

Do the math! Can a 47m Schwing pump EVER be set up on dirt with just the pads?

Please, don't believe me, Call Rob Edwards at Schwing America and ask him.

Is that Gravel or Dirt. It makes no diffrence, just curious.it should still have something under the pads. Does anyone ever use plywood sheets under their pads? The other day thats all i could find on a job so i used 5  5x12 sheets under each pad. it worked pretty good.

What kind of cribbing would be required in this case with a unit that size?? And what about a 36 M???

The answer to that question is determined by two things.

1. The load bearing capacity of the soil

2. The load imposed by the outrigger

1. may be found in the ACPA literature or the operators manual that came with the pump

2. is found on the information plate attached to the outrigger of whatever machine is in question * if the load information plate is not in place you can call the machine manufacture for the specific information for your machine

download divided by square inches of load bearing area equals soil load

Good answer Bob and you would bend a nail on that base, no shite.

And you will continue to justify your actions right up to the time someone pays the price. Make sure when you call Schwing you tell them that it was a nail bender.

Just how in the hell are you going to figure out what the load bearing capacity of the soil is? Look it up in ACPA literature what kind of answer is that you have already been told you could bend a nail on it, do you think you are going to bend a nail on dunnage.

A little common sense needs to be used. It looks to me like this pump is been used as a 35 meter pump that should be taken into consideration when setting up just like how close to power lines, short rigging or what ever decisions needs to be made every day by an operator.

Do I use dunnage you bet, when I think I need it, do I use it everytime no I use common sense and experience to guide me. The fact is you are never going to positively know what the load bearing capacity of the soil is.

I had this teacher in school. Everyday he would wright "RESPONSIBILITY" on the board. It would drive us nuts! The older I got. I was able to understand where he was coming from. Bob is just doing his job and his efforts will save lives in this industry. Don't shoot the messenger. His points are valid.

Oh Yea, THANKS BOB!!!!

L&N,

Multiple sheets of plywood are a great way to distribute download. The only problem being the learning curve; how many sheets are 'enough'. It sounds as if you have the program pretty well figured out. Please let me caution you about the bowing that will denote an insufficient number of sheets. That is your signal to either use more, or perhaps use some dimension lumber (4x4 or 4x6) on top of your plywood as that would aid your effort considerably.

We are, as I say, all in this together. Our industry is judged as a whole by such people as the insurance industry. It is important how seriously you take the safety regulations. It is equally as important how your fellow pumpers take them as you are being judged by his actions as well. When one of us screws up, it has an effect on us all. Do your part, and if given the opportunity, give the other guy encouragement to do his as well. ;~)

Pardom my stupidity. Post s/b to John.

Sorry ;~)

In my experience using plywood is a definate no no. The manufacturers pads that you are supplied being putz or schwing should always be accompanied with really strong timbers I carry six half size railway sleepers on the side of my pump it doesn't leave much room for anything else. I always make sure I have got adequate sleepers under at least three outriggers so if there is ever a problem on the side that I am working over I have always got a safety point to swing the boom into. Here in England I have heard over the last two weeks of three different incidents where pumps have tipped over on different companies two of which the machines were using plywood. I always find with the putz the swivel plates on the bottom of the outriggers are much better than the rigid ones you get the on the schwing outriggers.

Love from England  

Few well guys this setup is good for this particular contractor, the Germans cover all the bases, on the virgin soil it is stripped to the hardpan then blasted 2-3ft rock then sand and 50-50 compacted then small blasted ROCK then more 50-50 soacked and compacted, so really lets not let one picture get your hair up, we did our homework and that will be my last picture, just wanted to share a shot, but with any newcomer even Canadian, I have to say good bye. Thanks Speedy I was having fun, and any misconceptions of Concord pumps as I have made may be put to rest also, we talked tonight indepth with Chris and sales manager And we are trying to swing the 32z deal.

So to all I bid adue. Ps the sky is falling.

Well it would seem that these so called experts that are criticizing everyone’s pictures would get some more facts before saying anything but I guess it makes them feel superior.

Excellent picture I am surprised at how bright the colors are with digital pictures. Nice color contrasts. I have a small cheap camera and it takes really good pictures, of pumps especially!

Sorry to hear you are not going to post any more pictures but I new that would happen. Why put up with the BS when you are just posting a picture. I sure would not put a picture on this website.

A 47m doesn't have a larger Footprint than a 36m. In fact I think it has one of the smallest footprints of any bigstick out! I've had it punch a hole through a pad (WITH DUNNAGE DOWN) and I'm very wary of the ground I set it up on!

speedy i think their bringing back the 36 , its going to be a s36sx with a RZ last section Z

check out the link

http://www.schwing.com/pages/news/press_release/2007/bauma.html

Speedy: I have my facts straight,old son.I run a 47sx! The actual size of each foot on the outrigger of 47sx is smaller than a 36x! Those are what I punched through a outrigger pad with! There was a rock about 8" below the ground I set my pad on and when I got the boom about 50' out the undercut gave way,shearing my dunnage and punching the foot through the pad,ultimately breaking my pad in two! This was on a graded gravel road

I understand that a 47M should never be put on dirt with out proper dunnage. But you can't tell if that is dirt, rock, concrete, from the picture. It would have been  more appropriate to ask what the ground conditions were before you went off on the picture, all of which was made from an assumption. and as we all know asuming make an ass out of you and me both.

MUDSLINGER i will vouch for you bro because i have ran the truck you have and it is weird, did a 1,000 yd mat pour with it and i think  i watched the truck more than the pour. NOW as far as the ACPA goes on dunnage, i think they just cover their butt by saying stack all the wood you have avalible no matter what, puts it on the operator as always, as far as the old plywood thing goes, leeme tell you i have been there done that will never do it again, had 8 sheets ripped in half stacked straight up, so that is 16 high under the fron outrigger of a 52m and they are worthless in crappy soil, split crack pop all day, railroad ties are the way to go. In my humble opinion if the ground is so crappy that you are nervous, dont set up, DUUU! it is the customers responsobility to provide a SAFE FLAT PROPER place to set the pump up at PERIOD. If that customer calls some under worked over paid dispatcher and says the ground is bad weird or whatever, instaed of just saying ok and moving on call the sales person have the COMPANY go look at the site prior to a pour so things can be worked out ahead of time. Becuse i will tell you if i roll up on your job and it aint right you WILL be soreley disapointed.Companys and dispatchers need to nut up and do their job instead of just saying read the manual, well i read the manual and it din't say nothing about setting up in a creek bed, but i did it because the man was smart and had some 8ft railroad ties, din't see anything about extremeley wet and or muddy condions when setting up on an incline, only thing i saw was a picture showing you how to make sure the pad is flat and that is good imfo but where is the rest of it? Not there that i have seen. I think these saftey manuals be it shcwing, putz acpa or whoever need to be re written from scatch by some people who have been there and done that. I would love to get my hands on an old manual be it hasent changed much in 30 years. I know BoB is going to go off over this, its othing personal I just grips my but that people are constanley told to refer to the manual when is is incomplete it needs to cover EVERY aspect of setting a pump up. Why doesnt it? Ever seen a manual out of a crane about setting up? my advise is if you are setting up and the outriggers keep pushing dunnage down dont do it you may be sorry. Curbside setups beware for water,sewer phone power  cables behing the curb, they will give you a nasty scare if you don't, whay isint that in the manual i wonder? I could go on for days with these saftey manuals, they are good and imformative but they need to be about three times as thick in my opinion.  ok bob, your turn,lol

MidnightRider,

My responsibility is for the safety of everyone in the area of a pump job. My first responsibility is to the operator. That means not only the safety of the op’ but his well being. I spend a lot of time wondering how I can help you. One of the best ways is to insure that you do everything BY THE BOOK. (or not at all).

If you can not set up in an area that can be made safe by the correct use of dunnage; just don’t set up.

You are the guy that is in trouble if things go wrong. When things go wrong you are judged (legally) by that book you wish was thicker. You, and your family, are safer from any type of sanction if you go by the book. I always am a pain in the azz. I will continue to be that way because I care about you and your well being.

I know that for example if a guy kinks the hose and falls on his arm and screws it up every single thing you did that day will be brought up in the course of the legal battle for $$$. So…… the guy looses use of that arm….. you are on the witness stand….. and the lawyer asks you why you only had pads under your outriggers. WHAT THE HELL DOES THAT HAVE TO DO WITH THE GUY KINKING THE HOSE?????? You think he must be crazy. What he is doing is his job which is to show that you were not compliant with the rules. And, if you failed to obey any of them he will make it his duty to put you in as dark a light as possible. It is his job; he does it by the book.

So here you are, the operator of the pump in the photo that started this thread. Something happens and you end up on the hot seat WITH your entire company and their insurance company. It is my intent that he has no questions that need to be answered with embarrassing answers. Do I think that the 47m is going to fall over, NO. But in the end, when it counts, the only thing that matters is what the jury thinks.  

You have got to be an industry expert.Kinda like all the other bossmen Ive ever known.Been in the business for 20 yrs now.Havnt been to this sight in so long I had to reregister.As Im skimming around I realise by reading this post why I havnt been here in so long.You hung the man without even a trial.Like every other bossman out there the first place you looked was operator erorr.In the real world where the moneys actually EARNED theres a rare few that actually use ACPA guidelines for dundage.If we did we would have a pickup following us everyday to haul all the dundage.I think the last post to run me off was the bossman that got on here talking shit about an operator falling asleep on the job.When in reality the guy plugged and blew a pipe.Bossman still talked shit of operator error.When yall make a mistake you grab the whiteout or hit delete.When the operator makes a mistake in the real world,you know that place where the moneys actually EARNED,that operator is automatically a dumbass.