Page 72 of the Concrete Contractor "Know your mark-up value".

"Just remember if you are winning percentage is high (greater than 60 percent) chances are just as high that your pricing is too low, don't be price foolish".

"if you are pricing your work just to stay busy then you will find it difficult at some point to make money"

Well I'll reply to myself, it is not colusion to discuss costs.

If your pumping with small booms for under 120 an hour just shoot yourself it's quicker. If your not charging your labor and equipment costs for travel stick a knife in your heart it's quicker.If your not charging yardage fees let me know where you are so I can shoot you (it's quicker too.)

Let me tell you this 32M $175.00 hour 6 hours per day every working day of the year, and I dont care if it's used or new.

Cost basis... if it's used it cost less to sit and more to run, if it's new it costs less to run and more to sit...Either way you end up with a worthless POS in about 10 years. Then they really start to cost.

D-T. YOU SOUND LIKE A REAL OPTIMIST..  AND I HOPE YOU DONT FIND OUT WHERE IM AT AT ANY GIVEN TIME.

YOUR WORLD SOUNDS GREAT WHERE DO I SIGN UP..

REALY I APPRECIATE WHAT YOUR SAYING I WISH I COULD CHARGE LIKE THAT BUT THE COMPETITION HERE IS FIGHTING TOOTH AND NAIL FOR WORK. AT LEAST ONE OF THE BIGGER GUYS IS IN CHAPTER 11.   HERE--AINT THE PLACE TO BE RIGHT NOW..

I agree with both of you. I am in the same boat, 3 days a week right now I am traveling about 1.5 hrs to jobsite. Granted it is for a very good client of mine that keeps me busy, but I go where the work is no matter what. If you are in business for yourself, there is really only 1 reason we do what we do... which is profit plain and simple. Most know there bottom line and will not work to lose money. All I can say is thank goodness for the commercial work right now because residential is in the toilet in ca. Personally I have more work now than I have had in about 9 months.

No Doubt it is tougher than it looks to make money in the pumping business. Then again, How can a company expect to make money when they are buying equipment. One pump or thirty the cost are the cost! Like DT said, In 10 years you have a pos but that was five good years of making money.

How do you fight against other pump companies that are pumping for this gosh dang flat rate pricing per job? We have a few here local that have screwed it up for the rest of us and offered "certain customers" a flat rate to get all of their work.

Z man,

Tell their customers that are paying the higher rates how cheaply they are pumping for others. Try and have their customers put pressure on them to get the lower rates. NO ONE that has cheap "special customers" wants the world to know about it. If it is the truth your telling it is not at all negative. They wish to play games... tell all of their customers the rules. ;~)

I agree, it's called an industry standard.

And all must play along for it to work. May I point out labor rates at Mack or any other garage for that matter. Yes they range but any dealership like Mack, Freightliner are running around 95.00 hour. Most hydraulic shops are in the same range. Now if you get into a smaller shop you may see 70.00 hour labor. They usually only do minor repairs.

So does Mack or Freightliner cut their labor rates due to a slow down? Do they have the tooling and overhead costs of even a small pump company? Absolutely not.

Do you shop your suppliers or do you stick with the ones that provide good service and get you in when you need to get your iron up and running?

Do the fuel companies lower the prices due to a slow down? Insurance companies? Tire companies? Parts suppliers? Call a service man out from a plumbing company, electrical company or appliance repair man. Get a portable welder and a man, I think you will find those go between 70-90 (portal to portal) an hour, now that’s a 1 ton truck and a 3500 welder and 10 grand worth of tools and rod. Hech call a mobile service truck for a road side repair those run 100 plus an hour, some may have 50 grand of tooling a nice little 35k chassis. Most of us have most of those tools at our shops…That is their shop.

So we sit here thinking that we might get sold down the road because we provide an excellent service to our client base. Well if Joe blow was 85 bucks less to get to a job that you had provided impeccable service too would they change?

Well I don’t know. But if we had industry standards on labor rates (like Merli did in the old days) and billed labor at a "STANDARD RATE" we might move this industry out of the gutter. Once owners decide a industry standard labor rate is a true cost of doing business and covering over head and those "rates are not to be touched"., then that leaves the owner with only the equipment rates to be "played" with. When an owner looks at the equipment rate separated then it gives a much clearer picture for return on investment or loss of return on investment.

Example if labor rates were fixed industry standard (market  areas) and lets say the labor rates were 70.00 an hour (cover cost of office personnel , lights, water, overhead, benefits etc then a person would look at the rental rate of the equipment, fuel, insurance, tires maintenance etc. So we all know that 8 gallons an hour is fairly standard in fuel costs so we now have 24.00 to add to the rental, lets say the average pump payment is 6k a month' so flat costs are 50 bucks an hour based on 100% rental…well lets reduce that to 75% rental so now equipment payment costs are 75.00 an hour. Well most of us know that wear parts are well over $1.50 per yard plus labor, not including oils etc. Now let's add insurance costs at 8.00 hour. Truck maintenance is at least another 8 bucks and hour.

Now profit should be at least 10% and for the risk I think it should be double that so lets add this all up shall we.

So we are at $177.00 per hour without profit based on a 32M running 6 hours a day 15 working days a month time on job.

 Or $16,000 a month not including yardage fees etc. If you pumped 60 yards a day at $2.50 and the costs were $1.50 that would add another 1300 bucks to the 16K so now we are at 17,300.00. Well the unit needs to be cleaned so there is at least 1 hour additional labor a day to clean and I would surmise and additional 2 hours a day ( "reserve labor maintenance" oil changes, wrenching etc.) So an in house no frills $30.00 labor rate is an additional $1300 a month. So now we are 18,500 per month flat cost. I would think that a 20% margin would be a good margin (you know you have to give that back the first problem you have ) So that would mean add an additional 3700 to the base cost.

So now we are at $22,200 a month or $266,000 a year. Now you can afford to pay your employees what Mack pays (LMAO) and good benefit packages. Now these figures are based on the machine sitting one day a week you know, holidays , rain days, cancellations etc.This is where this industry need to move too IMHO. This equates to $1400 a day for a 32M.. That pretty good money and we could attract good, pay good wages and not panic when things slow down and bank when things are good.

hear the Vegas rates are like 170 hour for a 32M...so they kinda got that part right but they foigot to charge the yardage fees!

So they do grat until they turn the pump on the the clock starts spinning backwards and with every yard pumped the hand the contactors back a $1.50 per yard....Great plan!

So if you pump at 100 yards an hour you be pumping for free!

The only guys that are making it there is the ones that go out for the really small pours abd get the minimums.

Why pump volume there? for the glory? Start charging yardage cover your costs.

Education costs and industry standards...it's time to grow up in this industry. The child like behavoiur like pumping across the street from the competitions office to "send a meassage" is child like behaviour, immaturity abounds within this industry. Time to grab by the boot straps, stand up like businessmen with idea of making money, treating employees fairly and making good livings for the Owners and the employees and quit being stupid little boys with big trucks.

No one here can tell my the "my truck is bigger than your truck" is rampant in this industry. Wake up and make money. If your gonna play that game better charge a fortune. I look at some of the equipment and shake my head, those huge machines are worth some 5000 a day IMHO and they go out for about 1/2 or less of what they should be.

Who in their right mind would spend 1.5 million just to have the biggest boom in town" The guy with the smallest one and with the largest ego. Ever wonder if they make money or are they just wanting vanity?

IM AT A LOSS AS TO WHAT THE ANSWER IS HERE. THE INDUSTRY "STANDARDS" HAVE BECOME FLAT RATES AND SAME AS TRAILER PUMP PRICING (30000 MACHINE =500000 MACHINE) THEN WHEN YOU DO INVOICE A MORE PALATABLE PRICE YOU GET A CALL A COUPLE OF WEEKS LATER THAT COMPANY X DOES IT FOR THIS PRICE SO CHANGE IT OR ILL GO BACK TO THEM. THIS IS THE QUALITY OF SERVICE DOES NOT MEAN HIGHER PRICING QUANDRY THAT WE FACE. THE BIG BOYS HAVE COMMODITIZED OUR INDUSTRY =32M =900,36M= 1100 AND SO ON. ABSURDITY YES BUT IF YOU WANT SUCCEED YOU HAVE TO FIND A MIDDLE GROUND OR GET OUT THAT IS THE SAD TRUTH. A ONCE PROUD INDUSTRY TARNISHED AND ROTTING FROM THE PIGS THAT HAVE DOMINATED IT.