Hi guys!

I have been going through this site for sometime now and its a real treasure trove of knowledge from some real hardcore pumpers who obviously have great hands on knowledge of the industry. I have a query where you guys can be a major source of help.

Me & My Company:

We run a medium sized construction business in a region where 95% projects (even large ones) are completed using rather primitive concrete pouring methods. Pumping has only recently arrived here and a few years ago, a Mobile Pump was considered Star Wars level stuff! :)

The quandrum:

We have signed a contract for 6 identical 10 story buildings. As per client's requirement, we have purchased a concrete plant which will be on it's way soon. However, we are UNABLE to decide what TYPE of pump to get.

They onl individual Pumps (Stationary or Mobile) are being used are with companies for their own project use or Ready mix suppliers who are unwilling to offer advice. We can import whichever pump we want but are unable to decide what we need. 

Our Project:

5 Identical 10 story Mixed use buildings located at close distance to each other (within 500m radius)

Total Concrete Requirement is 45,000 Cubic Meters (1,575,000 Cubic Feet)

Here is what our (untested) view for pump suitability is:

Mobile Pump:

What we think is good about them:

Independent: No need to arrange towing from site to site

Flexible: No hassle of delivery lines

Major Reduction of delivery labor

What we think is wrong with them:

Expensive: Bad News - We simply cant afford a new one (Import duties on chasis is very high here) and will have to get a used unit. Good News - Our regular (very reliable) machinery importers have assured us they can source us good clean unit options as soon as we are clear about our requirements (minimum boom size)

Complex: While we have met a few operators here who have experience from working abroad and have assured they can operate and maintain the pump that we buy, right now, we can only take their word on this till D - Day (First Pour). Our current staff has good construction machinery skill level (Dump Trucks/Excavators/Wheel Loaders) but have never operated a concrete pump. If the new hires prove to be duds, we will fall flat on pouring day.

No main dealers: Dont know what spares will be needed or if they are easily available. Since we will need to get a used machine, it is inevitable that we will face some breakdown during our project (45,000 cbm / 1.5 Million CFT). Independant techintions are available but are obviously untested by us so far and dont have a manufucturer backing.

Stationary Pump:

What we think is good about them:

Availability: Our regular machinary supplier is also a Sany Dealer and is offering full support

Price: These are easily within our range. We can easily get two brand new sets

Simple: Our dealer has assured us he will have the team ready to handle these in no time

Cost Effective: These are powered by Cummins/Duetz engines that we are very comfortable with 

What we think is wrong with them:

Pipelines! We have to build 5 buildings almost simultaneously and will be litterly hunting for Ready Formwork! :) Pipelines will literaly tie us down. We will have two options here:

1. Train an ultra fast pipeline installing team which will quickly dismantle pipelines and move them to the next building (this will get progressively difficult as building heights increases. Labor is reletively cheap here but this is nevertheless an absurd amount of work

2. Purchase 5 sets of pipeline for five different buildings. Again, not a pleasant option at 120m X 5 Buildings = 600m of Pipe

I would really appreciate advice from you guys as this decision has literally put us in a paralysis. Our concrete plant will be arriving soon and our transit mixers have already reached the port and will be through customs by end of this week.

We have recieved a offer where a third party is offering us turnkey pumping service using a 38m Mobile pump but the rent they are asking is too high (we can buy the same pump model that they have with the annual rent quotation that they have offered use).  

Woah! Didnt expect this to come out so long! Had been going through this site for weeks and just had a sudden inspiration to type my heath out! :D Will really appreciate input from the gurus out there. 

The best thing I can tell you is World of Concrete is next week. Come to World of Concrete. Experts in every side of the industry will be there to help.

call Irving equipment they'll take care of you , just click on the top of board ad

I wouldn't even consider a line pump for 2 seconds on this job. 10 stories and 5 buildings it would be crazy to use a line pump.

I also think you would be wasting your time at the world of concrete. You are from Pakistan and have a low budget. Why take an expensive trip to Las Vegas to look at only new equipment.

What you need is eighter a used good brand boom pump or a newer but cheaper brand. Something like a 40m would be good. You might need to lay a few hoses on the top stories but think you can live with that. The pump should at least be able to reach up to the 10th floor.

The newer top brand will be to complicated to work on so if you go for a top brand make sure its a bit older model without all the complicated stuf. 

There are a lot of companies that sell decent used pumps. Here is a good one for exsample:  http://www.eurosun.eu/   This guy has loads of contacts and might very well be able to help you to a good used pump. he also sels mixers and all kinds of stuff that might be interesting for you.

If you can afford it this would be a very sweet deal for you I think: http://www.eurosun.eu/detaillist.asp?nr=1080 Give him a call. He can help you with financing to.

I agree Dipstick, the line pump is out the question; the 42M Schwing would be a good choice, old school pump, easy to maintain, and almost bulletproof as far as reliability

Newbie: if you decide to purchase a pump, buy  wear parts at the same time or make it part of the deal

i get the impression, that you've been  doing your homework, I am sure you and your team can figure out how to run a pump, which is not rocket science by any means

Thanks for the input guys! I knew i would get some direction from here! :)

@ Dipstick

I totally agree with your backing for a Boom Pump vs Line Pump. Fixed seperate pipeline for 5 buuildings seems workable but is still quite a bit of hassle. Althoug

I also agree with your view on getting a simple model as bell and whistles models will fly over our manpower's heads here. When you say newer but cheaper brands, which ones do you mean? For top brands, i am assuming you mean Putz/Schwing. 

The link you sent seems like a clean machine. Would this 2004 model qualify as a simple or complicated model? I will get in touch with them ASAP. In our part of the world, we prefer imports from Japan as their maintenance procedures are very good and equipment grading is standardized. We imported some 10 year old wheel loaders from Japan 8 years ago and they are still doing well despite being used heavily. 

@gboom

Yes, we have been really bogged down by this issue so obviously have done quite a bit of homework. We are a third generation company but are totally new to pumping technology and dont want to end up with a lemon that hurts our output in addition to causing monetary loss. I shudder when i think of a failed pump in mid pour! :D

The only major pro i think of for a stationary is the reliability of a brand new unit and of having a brand new stand by unit ready at all times for any eventuality. 

I think the one in the link would be perfect. This boom design is an old one and very very solide. Indestructable i'd say. And for the pump its self its as simple as you can get without going to far back in time.  The mercedes chassis is also an advantage. Relyable and they have the biggest network on the globe i think..

With the cheaper brands you have to be very carefull unless you buy much newer. I don't want to burn down any brands. Some of them are quite ok.  But lets just say I would go for an older Schwing or Putzmeister and forget about anything else.   The guy I tipped you is a serious guy. He has a lot of contact with Schwing and Putz. The pump in the link has been maintained by Schwing so it should be good.

Ok. I just found out you drive on the left side of the road in Pakistan so it would be an advantage with a righthanddrive. Japan would be a good solution but this Eurosun also has contacts in the UK so he might get you a right hand drive there  

Thanks Dipstick! I have written to them. Lets see what they come up with. My dealer is insisting our best bet would be 2 X stationaries and 5 X Pipeline sets.

2x stationary and 5x pipeline is 20x the labor and inviting 10x the problems. Check out Ritchie Brothers Auctions. They have several Boom pumps to be auctioned in March at Dubai

https://www.rbauction.com/Asphalt-Concrete-Concrete-Pump-Trucks?s=Y2l8Tj00Mjk0NzQ2ODgyKzQyOTQ3NDIzNzg=&id=ci&xi=y

Yea if you think you will never ever get a large job again he might be right. Otherwise he should open his eyes and look at what the rest of the world does.

You will be much much more flexible with the boom pump. You can do a poor at one building in the morning, put the boom on the truck and drive to the next job. You'll be pumping again withing 30 min. Not so easy to drag a line pump around and connect again. How do you prime?

Also if you go for the stationairy pump you will need to build up the line again for every new job. Much more work. And how do you think to spread the concrete around? Laying hoses or stationary boom?

Running a sationary pump and fixed line in a 10 story building also isn't at all easier for the concretepumpdriver. You can get lots of problems with fixed lines in buildings. Plugs are much easier to fix on a boom pump since you can easy put the pipeline in a different possition. Besides that the boom will be outside instead of inside an elevatorshaft for example. Think of the mess if you ever get a good plug inside a building. 

Of course now we used time to help you so now you will have to keep us updated on what solution you end up with. Including pictures and storys about good and bad episodes  

@ Dipstick

Dealer's and one of my engineer's view is to install vertical dedicated pipelines on each building that we will extend as height increases. One bend to turn onto roof slab from where we can spread concrete through a combination of Laying pipes and spreading labor. 

The fact that stationaries will be brand new and that we will also have a backup appeals to me to although mobiles are no doubt a way better proposition. 

@ Dipstick 

Will surely keep you updated. Infact i see myself being a very active member here. 

Till the time we move ahead with the new project, I'll show you how we do it traditionally. Will seem like stoneage to you! :)

Do yourself a favor and get the 42M

Hmmm. I would never make that choise just because you then have 1 backup pump. It doesn't help very much with a backup pump when you get a serious plugg in your vertical pipeline.. And all the LOADS of extra laber. But when I see these pictures it might be a to big step to move straight to a boom pump. It will be like jumping over 3 generations of development at once..

Good luck

will you be feeding your new pump with ready mixed concrete or mixing by hand?

@pumpfinish 

Hahaha! I really liked that response! This one was a 3' thick foundation for a building (about 1,700 cbm) that got poured in 1 go (24 hours) using 6 diesel based mechanical mixers with 1000L drums. Concrete pouring labor that we have are specialized for this kind of work and are ultra rugged - there is an insane amount of work in terms of manually filling up the mixers (team 1) and also pouring it at the other end through wheel barrows (team 2). Generally, there are 30 men to a machine.  

@ Dipstick

Extra pipe is costing us only USD 20,000 and we can build a "extend as building rises" pipeline that we will leave in place at each building. Whenever it is time to pump, we will hook up the stationaries at the bottom.   

How severe do you think blockage is as an issue in stationaries? Is blockages generally in vertical or horizontal sections?

@ pumpatude

We will be concrete through batch plant which is arriving next week

That is insanely impressive. 1700cbm in 24 hours is even hard for a team that has 2 mobile pumps and a serious concrete plant here in Norway. How many people wwhere working on that job?

Are there any companies that rent mobile pumps? We have a rental division in Australia and now in the USA. That way, you can have the best of both worlds! The mobile pump you need without the capital expenditure! check us out at :

www.cpeamerica.com and www.concretepumpengineering.com.au 

we have trailer pumps, line pumps, Placing booms upto 42m, and mobiles from 21m to 58m.

@CPE

There are rental options but they are quite expensive. Rent will cost about USD 130k per annum (We will pay for fuel and lodge/board of the crew) while the same machine costs about USD 200k.

Newbie, that is the million dollar question!

A) Do you put your hand in the pocket and buy upfront and spend all your cash?

B) Go to the bank and borrow money?

C) Or rent something that you can afford on a monthly basis and get the job done without the capital outlay?

The example is " when we travel and arrive at a different place/country do we have to buy a car, because to rent a car is expensive!"

The same with pump rentals...you rent for a period that suites your needs. ..you rent for a period of time without outlaying/borrowing money.

We offer a "RENT TO BUY" programme that after 6 months rental you can buy the equipment, and part of the rental payments made will be your "DOWN PAYMENT" ! 

There are many advantages using this system: 

1) No capital outlay

2) You keep the pump for as long as you need it...hence when job finished you dont have a loan still to pay off!

3) You can buy the pump if you like it...gives you a chance to really see if the pump is a good pump or not

4) You get part of the rental as your down payment...hence a saving in the purchase price

5) Lets you build a customer base that otherwise you could not have achieved.

When borrowing is tough...you can still pump with our rentals!

If you need further help, let us know.