Just corious when all these people that claim to be for better safety in concrete pumping will start to require oilers on big pumps? 

So I have been thinking about this very subject for a while and was going to bring it up I have been pushing this idea at my company for awhile I even set up a program that I am getting ready to present to them tell me what you guys think? This is the short version we have 7 big booms rangeing from 52m to 63m we also need a training program so I think we can kill two birds with one stone by making our new hires oilers and send them with our best operators to get the proper training the problem that Im running into and i see his point our owner says it costs to much money he would have to raise his prices and thats very hard to do in this market any ideas or thoughts

If osha made it a law that ALL pump companies had to follow then the cost would all be passed down to the customer no matter what company the customer called.  I know first hand that pump accidents could be avoided if there was an oiler on big pumps.

yes I agree that would be awesome and thats my arguement is avoiding the accidents now we just need to get osha to make and inforce the oiler rule im with you 1OO% now how do we get osha to make the rule

OK i get it maybe and Oiler is a slang for rookie feed us a bone.... I am a Canuke so Oilers belong in Calgary and skate like the rednecks they are hehehe.

I see no reason why only pumps over 52m would need an oiler. Its the small pumps like 20m or so that have huge line jobs that really could use an oiler. Operator stand with the endhose and oiler by the pump sometimes standing 500m or more away. Ok radios are fine but many finnishers don't see the dangers when standing alone with the endhose.

Also when blowing a ball with air it would be extreemly much better to have 2 operators on the job.

Besides a lot of customers will rather order a 48m without the extra costs of an oiler and just put a hose on than pay for a 52 with extra costs. In that case I would rather have an oiler on the 48 that is to short than one on the 52 that can do the job straight from the endhose. 

My opinion: If we start to demand oilers than do it on all the pumps. Not just the big ones.

But here is one to think about. Why are we alowed to work 12, 14, 16 +++ hour days while a normal truckdriver has to stick to strickt rules like 9 hours a day and half an hour rest every 4,5 hours etc etc?  Wanna talk about safety? There you've got a good subject in my eyes.. 

Gotta have oilers for these pumps. Could never understand not. Our industry is always looked at like the bottome of the pit. Even the finishers and skilled people like operators. In the apprentice schools how many are taught how to operate a pump?

In 2001 we offered the Local Operating engineers a pump to keep at the apprentice school for a month on trial. We offered to send an operator to help instruct. They denied the offer. I was told the pumps were not offered in the apprentice program.

But what was confusing it they took the money for the dues from the pump operators and our check for the benefits package every two weeks for or operators. So operators are deemed "Operating Engineers" but do not go through the apprentice program.

How about some of the other locals. Same way? Or do they have a program for pump operators coming up?

Biloximike... Is that an american rule you talk about? Do these rules count in europe also? I never heared about that. All the pump co's I know let the operators work almost unlimited hours. I had at least 4 times a 24 hour shift in the last 10 years and a lot of 16/17+ hours shifts.

What about all these storys about guys working 70+++ hour weeks? Do you guys in the us work max 9 hours a day with nice scedualed brakes? That would be a shock for me. That would mean we are very far behind on you guys over there..  

these are the driving regulations here you can work one 16 hour day and after that you are only aloud 14 hour days in a week but my company will just send out other drivers to drive the pumps so we still see some long work days here

Dipstick , DOT is like the rule our mixers are under.... I don't know Norways laws exactly... But here in Sweden We dont have the diagram in the pumps , only mixers and PUMIS . But We have laws for workinghours even for pumpoperators , the same that every worker must follow . But I know how it is , We finish the job... That's You and Me that are idiots that do the longhour-job everytime ! We have 40 hours week buy the law and 10 hours overtime... I work probably the same hour that You do , If there are some pumping to do... But about the oilers , We deside if WE need one or two . NOT the customer , he have to pay . We have regulation about that from the Swedish "OSHA" and "ACPA" , the customer has nothing to say about safety . If We need 2 operators to do the job safety , We send 2 operators . Simpel !

You can work one 16 hour day and then 14 hour days the rest of the week!!?? whahaha... Is that a rule??? You might aswell just say you can work as much as you want. Thats 72 hours.. I've maybe once or twice worked such a long week before..

Yes Vasa thats also how we do it. We send 2 man if we think its necessary.

As long as there is no strickt system to control these hours etc like there is in the transport world I don't think this will ever work. Like you say it will be seen as you are a trouble maker and you will probbably make it impossible for yourself to continue working in the firm in a nice way.

I also think that if they want us to stick to those rules they should come with some system instead of only punnishing after the dammage is done.

Dipstick - I apologise - I thought you were in the states - These are the rules for working and driving here.  Once again Sorry!

No problem. If you realy thought I was from the US you were actualy being very patient  Thanks for the complete info. I didn't know it worked like that in the states. I wonder if the same rules aply here. I never heared about it. Its like a pumper here is kind of a forgoten subject. Only thing you need here to drive a pump is a truckdrivers license and maybe some simple safety certificate to get you in to most buildingsites.. Maybe we are not so civelized in europe as we sometimes think

We have pretty much the same rules in place here in Canada, or atleast in British Columbia. Local commecial drivers are regulated by the same as any long haul transtport driver, we do have a 60 and 70 hrs option per week though, I thought Washington state was close to the same, maybe it was more down time if you went with the 70 hrs, but here we can go up to 14 hr work shifts per day but 8 or 10  off in between. 

Dipstick, it is all about gvt control and responsabilities in the States to my surprise they are not held by law to have their booms inspected, maybe a contractor demands it before he lets them work his site, which is good.

DOT are good things to, but they have audits and taxes coming out of the ear also. But generally they save lives.

I have seen truck crashes in the states with farmers driving 80ft long A trains with one brake chamber working, so they have a large population that need these rules.

Dipstick It is hard fines to break the workinghours and drivingtime in Scandinavia . I dont know how You have it in Norway , but We have permission to break the drivingtime on a pump , NOT on the PUMIS . Because that they are seen as trucks . BUT We are under the laws about workingtime , that should Your boss have track of how many hour You are working per week month year and owertime . I know that dont happends so often in Sweden or Norway . My fiancee is a boss over the cleaners and chefs & kitchen staff in the Town We live and it's on her to see that not someone work to much or long shifts... If she dont do it right she get fired or some fines .

Dipstick, Because Norway is not a part of the EU I don’t know about the rules over there. But in Sweden and the Netherlands and al other EU states we have since 2010 a max average 48 hour working week, whit a max of 60 hours a week. The average is counted over 6 months so vacancies and slow winter time can make your average lower. Because what in the states is called DOT in the EU only is for load carrying trucks and we are seen as driving equipment the electronic registration device is legally disconected..

back to oilers

I have run alot of pumps over the years but 58m or larger need oilers,52m a wise thing.These super booms have so much liability that i'm suprissed there aren't more accidents.With the kind of investment in the equipment,make perfect logic.

Damm SUPERDOFFER than your boss is lucky now with this finance crisis. I remember just before I left some 7 years ago he made us sign a paper where we agreed on a 55 hours working week. And I remember thinking 'what the fck are you talking about??' because I was working 65 hours a week at that time..

But again look at what a pathettic rules that actualy are if they look at a 6 months avarage then ofcourse there will be a summer or winter holliday in any of these periods making your avarage go way down.. Do they want safety or do they just want to be able to say that they did make some rules for it while we all know that these rules are childsplay to trick with..

But lets go back to the oilers story.. This will not lead to anything anyway.. They will rather sit in their offices watching out the window to see if we all wear glasses and helmets then make some realy good action on improving the safety and working conditions for pumpers..

Not talking about the US but this is how I see it in europe.. Its a cowboy industry.. Maybe one problem is that pumpers get so underpayed that they want and have to work so much hours to make a propper living.

I remeber one situation for example.. I was out with the 52m in a period where I was pulling 65+ hour weeks for a long time already.. Then one day I got a job 2 hours from the shop and had to be there at 5:30 in the morning. It seemed out the finnishers where pure amatures and I was standing there till midnight before I could even start cleaning the hopper.. I called dispatch and told him the situation. He said owwwwww... You have to be there and then at 5am tommorrow morning.(1 hour from the shop)  He said he couldn't do anything to change it  We hang up and I started a calculation..

washout  30 min

driving    2 hours

driving home from the shop 45 min  home at 3,15am.. (thats about a 23 hour shift)

eat and shower  45 min

driving to the shop 45 min

driving 1 hour to the site.. Thats 5,45am so 45 min to late.. Maybe I should drop the shower and the dinner

I called directly to the boss and explained the situation.. He understood this was madness and also didn't want to pay for a hotel so he said he would call me back. After washout he called me back and said he had fixed the problem..

The solution was that I had to switch pumps with someone so that I got a job also 1 hour from the shop but started 1,5 hours later..

So now I had 45 min to sleep if I real hurried like a maniac.. And so it happened. It was a looong day the next day and the day after was not any different.  

Acording to your rules this is completely legal as long as you get a bit long summer holiday and maybe some days of once in a while..

I rest my case  

I know the motel room isnt the correct answer,you want to hear ,but what was your boss saving by going though the other gymnastics? I would rather stay in a room that drive extra time @ the end of the nite burning fuel the price of gold.T

Back to oilers - Many I agree but I also ask the following - Can anyone explain to me how it is safe to operate any boom truck via radio remote when you are out of sight of the pump unit?

Oilers ? guys this is a dream unless your wanting a paycut, I ran a 58m and yeah some jobs you could use a oiler, to help setup and breakdown, but unless its a elevated pour or a blind pour , most times the oiler ends up backing up trucks and doing jobs the contractor should be doing or not doing shit , I had a oiler and sometimes it was more trouble than it was worth, now our company, any line off the boom over 50 feet a laborer fee is charged, any more than 150' ft of line on linepumps a laborer fee is charged, anytime I have to send a extra man I charge for it, other than that there is no money in pump rates for oilers and do not see that being changed anytime soon, now safety ,I do not see how having a unexperienced man on the job makes these jobs any safer, I've been there , its another man you have to look after, now if we said two operators, for the hours and driving I would say yes. 

I agree with Beast. Oilers are not needed. It is nice to have an extra hand when a lot of system is needed. Honestly I think too many people want to be lazy. I feel that about 70% of pump operators are "button pushers". Not many know how to diagnose a problem with a pump or even repair the problem. Most of it is being too lazy to figure out how to fix things. A true operator knows his machine inside and out and is not afraid of doing some manual work. If you feel you need a laborer to help so you can push buttons all day. Then get an office job.

Maybe an oiler isn't needed on a 40 M class pump[ or smaller, in most cases, but if the placement is 3 or 4 stories up (or more) and access to get there is on the other side of the building from the pump, then maybe it would be 'diligenty' to have one.  Now, in the case of 50 M class pumps with multi-piece pads and long stretched out slabs and fast placements, then YES, an oiler is virtually a necessity.  Operating a pump when everything is going well is a cake-walk, but start having the inevitable issues, then the operator may need a hand, and it would be good if the assistant knew where to find the tool he needs, or anticipate what's going on next.  If the 2 work together well, then it will pay off.  It's like a 'rigger' for a crane operator.  (There's the reference to the crane industry again!!)