Guys: I have a customer that has a problem job and I need a solution for him. He has a small lake with overflow pipe that is a 16" pipe,120' or so long that is leaking somewhere, It has a rise of a quarter inch per foot,giving it a lift if 30' ending at a galvanized 90 degree head pipe around 16 feet high and 3' in diameter. How would you fill the pipe? Pressure pump from the bottom,or try to fill it from the top down. I know that a few of you have a LOT of experience in this area!

I may have a solution for you, but unfortunately it won't involve a pump filling the pipe.

If they would like to fix the leak and restore the proper function of the pipe, there is an effective fix. A CIPP (cured in place pipe) liner will likely do the trick. There are a couple of options, an inversion liner, or a pulled in place liner. The pipe may or may not need to be cleaned with a jetter first, then lined. Depending on the severity of the leak it may also be a good idea to televise the line with an inspection camera first. The whole process for a pipe that length can be completed in a day.

It will be more costly than filling and abandoning. But if this overflow is necessary, then I assume a new one will need to be installed somewhere. If that's the case, lining will be more cost effective and less invasive.

If a new overflow won't be needed, then obviously a liner isn't going to be the answer. I hope this helps or at least gives you another option to tell them about.

Here's a video showing a pulled in place, steam cured lining job. http://www.metacafe.com/watch/1346892/cipp_culvert_renewal_insituform/

I prefer the inversion method, but this was the first video I found, and both methods are effective. The inversion method blows the liner through the pipe without the need for winching.

1/4 inch per foot = 30 inch elevation difference in 120 feet.

You stated 30' (30 feet)

A liner is the way to go.

The customer needs to abandon the existing pipe because it's galvanized pipe close to 30 years old. His intention is to replace it with PCV pipe that has a longer life expectancy!

Can you slip the new into the old and grout the annulus space. If not pump from the outlet backwards.

"The customer needs to abandon the existing pipe because it's galvanized pipe close to 30 years old. His intention is to replace it with PCV pipe that has a longer life expectancy!"

That's exactly what they will get with CIPP. Nothing will need to be abandoned or replaced.

The only thing that will prevent this job from being a perfect canidate for a liner, is if the pipe is crushed or collapsed somewhere. The video link above shows a galvanized pipe being lined. These liners are not just for sealing leaks, they offer structural integrity comparable to PVC pipe. It is for all intents and purposes... a new pipe.

I know it doesn't bring in any pump work, but it sure seems like the best option for your customer.

OK Boom Out. What are the cost differences? His intentions are to also abandon the 36" overflow inlet, which is also rusted out galvinized pipe, around 16' deep? Any idea how they marry the two?

By the way, I turned him onto this website so he could see the ideas for himself. Keep them coming!!

Concrete is heavier than water.  Fill the overflow with wet concrete, fill it and stop leak. Have done a few of these on private lakes.

Does the 16" line come into the 36" verticle pipe above the bottom, creating a sump of sorts? something like this:

Boom Out: Yeppers, thats it! Give it a slope on the 16" and, by jove you've got it!

A little disclaimer first. We don't do linings. We do jetting, hydro excavating, various types of hydro vac work, and CCTV pipe inspections. So I'm not a lining expert, but I do have a pretty good knowledge of it, and work with lining guy's. In case anybody is wondering why I'm here, I used to, and still do occasionally run conveyors (Telebelts).

Back on topic. They (lining contractor) would likely trim any protruding 16" out of the 36" first, then line the 36", then the 16". The seal between the two will be very good, and they may choose to use an additional product to ensure a water tight seal.

I can only offer a rough and rather broad idea on the cost since there are many variables that can effect price. It should be $50.00 - $100.00 per foot. With very good access, and fairly clean pipe, it could be as little as $50.00 plf. If access isn't good, the pipe needs heavy cleaning, and maybe some site prep, it could be closer to $100.00plf. So they're probably looking at 10-12k depending on conditions.

Not cheap, but pumping, concrete, excavating, new pipe, and labor won't be either. In my area the price difference would be negligible. It may be a different story in your neck of the woods though. I don't know anyone near you, but here are a few contractors that I found with a quick search.