Did I read this right? Couldn't the problem of having the wrong hose be resolved by looking at which hose is clamped on before the operator leaves for the day? Like maybe during the pre-trip walk around? I mean the operators know what their first job of the day would require before they leave right?

Wrong hose ? Are the operator blind ?

No system on = 1 ended hose

System on = 2 ended hose

Whats the problem ?

Yes you read this right.  The likely hood of haveing the wrong hose is very great.  I rechecked my figures for this week and  from Monday 09.22.2008 through today 09.24.2008 we had to do 88% of our jobs with a 2 ended hoses.  That is 14 out of 16 jobs in just three days.

No they are not blind but it is almost impossible to tell the difference between the hoses. 

Ok guys here's a scenario, what do you do? You're pumping 8 stories up out the end of the boom in the middle of a city street. When your done pumping how do you cap the end of the hose while using a single ended hose? And please don't tell me to kink it. Do you have the operator carry a double ended hose up 8 floors (assuming no elevator or crane available) just to put it on so they can cap the end of the hose to bring the boom off the building?

Like Alex I too am from NJ and can say that I have never seen someone using a one ended hose here, not that's it's right, but we just don't do it because we're usually adding system on.

Wouldn't be hard to paint one end of all your boom hoses, or brand them, or wrap some duct tape around them that way operators know which hoses are boom hoses.

Yes, but it would just be safer to leave the boom hoses on the boom and not hope that job site personel make the right decision.   

I respect your opinion. Me and ice have been putting the word out here about the one ended hoses, but most of our jobs here require a double ended hose also. Our guys know they are to use the one ended hoses when they can though.

Alex,

Hopefully you can clarify for me because I am greatly confused with your response! Are you stating that the liability on your company is lower by hanging a double ended hose off the end of the boom after unhooking from horizontally laid system rather than taking the risks associated with changing out a tip hose while on the job?

If that is the case, I would ask you research how many accidents have been reported due to double ended hose whipping versus changing out a tip hose.

People have died solely due to impact with the steel end of a double ended hose being used as a tip hose! Has anyone ever died due to a result of changing out a tip hose while on the job?

Concrete pump safety is not rocket science! The true liability is the cost of someones life being taken by an action that could have and should have been avoided.

Joey.

Are you kidding me! Do you mean to tell me you guys run a double ended tip hose just so you can put on a cap to bring the boom off the building? Thats the kinda shit I expect from the mom and pop outfits running thompsens! Thats why we purchase and own air cuffs. In the Northwest we do large projects downtown all the time, if an operator is caught hanging a double ended tip hose while pumping its immediate termination!

I'm not trying to bash anyone or any company, but come on guys! This is the kind of shit that needs to change. Its no wonder the pumping industry is so far behind the times!!!

Joey.

If u can't look at a hose and tell the diffirance between size then ur in the wrong business.As far as having to man-handle a hose up a building,thats what u get paid for.When u get on the job u should prep for everything from beggining to end.Maybe the single-end tip hose situation should be addressed to the insurance industry,if they charge companies more for using double-ended hoses then it will change.Yes,people have died from these hoses before.  

A boomhose is singelended....

It is 2008 ! Get some airvalves !

Or made a manual "valve" , it has been in use for atleast 40 year...

Or this one  !

And one for TooTall !

I understand your dilemma,I do not care for kinking,but this is a serious safety problem,look into the antiwhip hoses for these types of projects,and teach your operators the difference in the system they have,single ended is the way to go

  hose whipping!thats a mixture of flat out pump drivers and brain fade mixer drivers in a 4" hose and reducer yes but not in a 5" rubber it seems to be you boys with the big four section booms 42m plus with lets say 12 to 15 metres of pipe per section you stop pumping and the stones run to the end bend or the reducer and your blocked up befour you pump again you grab a hand full of throttle press the pump button bang you now the rest slow those pumps down to start of with at least for the first two strokes there is no one out there that would keep changing a double for a single ended hose and back again if you had slab that you had pipe line out braking back to the boom and the slab was devided up in to five bays so pipe line off the boom five times sorry vaser not having a go at you but i would not pull my boom six floors down with those pipe stopers theres nothing to stop them falling out

joey,

 you must work with one of the big dog companies that think there shit dont stink dont be ragging on small companies that has nothing to do with it,air cuffs are mechanical and as you know mechanical shit breaks I do not believe this is the answer,I guarantee if we did a investigation 99% of hose whippings come from 4" hoses and the rest are operator error,proper training,keeping reductions in steel and educating r/mix drivers,antiwhip hoses single ended and double ended,and running 5" hoses the majority of hose whippings will cease,I have been pumping 20 years thru 4 and 5 inch hoses and have never had an issue until reduction hoses,there is a reason manufacturers put 5" hoses on pumps when they leave there plants,finishers that do not want to get dirty should stay home and sign up for government assistance,we work in concrete so concrete is going to get on us,I do not and will not EVER put an air cuff on a pump its kind of like reduction hoses I dont trust them or the way they work we existed fine before them a little bit of enginuity goes a long way on how not to drop concrete in downtown areas we do it without aircuffs without problems so its not about mom and pop operations its you gotta be a little bit smarter than the watermelon your eating

WOW i am very honored that Alex Wagner or awci posted on our message board. It is truly an honor for this site and our members to hear what you have to say. I just wanted to thank you for caring enough about our industry to talk to us about it.

Thanks for your thoughts and comments.

I have a friend who is now doing legal testimony in 5 hose whipping cases, he wont tell me anything about the cases but I do know this, if you have a double ended hose and it hits somebody your liability has now gone up substantially over having a single ended hose hitting somebody.

If somebody does not know the difference between a single ended hose and a double ended hose and they mistakenly put the wrong hose on, do you think they are qualified to even run a pump? It is the operators obligation to make sure the pump is set up and working properly right?

You guys know that only members can post on the message board right??? so if it is members please be respectful when talking to each other. We are all working together to make this industry profitable and safe. We can express ourselves with out name calling or low blows.

Believe me talking about this stuff will save peoples lives; I know this to be very true. We dont want to push people away by being mean. We do want to speak the truth and all work for the betterment of this industry.

UH??? Is this conversation really taking place?? Or am I under the influence..(unknowingly)

Pudg,

Hey look man, I dont mean to rag on the small guys, for that I apolagize. I do work for one of those "Big dog companies" but my shit still stinks just as bad as yours and everyone elses. The differance is I want to do something about it! I am very aware of everything you said in your response, but I do know for a fact that a double ended hose is not the answer! I know there is not one perfect solution for everyone, but it is about time we start standing up and saying something. There are lots of safe ways to stop the gravity flow of concrete out the end of the boom, pick what works best for your company and run with it!

Like I said in my last response, I'm not trying to bash anybody, I just think it is about time we pulled our heads out of our butts and stop doing these stupid things that could kill someone!

double ended tip hose = too lazy to change it after a system pour as far as i am concerned. let me tell ya, sitting at a deposition answering questions while you can be working making money is no way to spend your day. ( reducing hoses! bah!) hose whipping or just moving the boom a little faster than intended is enough to ruin a guys day/career/life. even if you are in the middle of a pour, CHANGE YOUR HOSE. safety first gentlemen. unless an inspector is telling you to pump the load or lose it, CHANGE IT.

I certainly would love to see the factual data on.

1) shoulda

2) coulda

3) woulda

As a former operator your either not giving due credit to your operators or we now know where the basket went.I now have my own company and if a operator refuses to changes hoses he's outta there,rest assured he will be backcharged for delays while another company comes that will abide to my jobsite spec's.

I will not now or ever let another company put me in the position of lawsuits.My costs are already high enough,I don't need any more help.I entered this industry in 1976 and count my blessings for no injuries.

Waiting for you Bob...

Bob had a big day today, he is not even returning my calls.

as usual everything in concrete pumping is situationally specific. all the old hands know there are many different factors in a hose plugging up.i had some real old concrete last week

 and poured the last load out after booming out of a building without changing the hose out. the mud was over 2 hours old and 4000 psi the inspector was bitching about the time and it was over 100 degrees out (low desert california) any screwing around could cost me a few loads of crete or 36 meters of boom pipe.in this situation i just took the last of the slickline off for the contractor to clean and finished the last of the pour with a double ended hose. asi did that the last few weeks of posts were in my mind ,i paid very close attention till we were finished.as a rule i run a 4 inch single end hose off the boom. i have had several times when pieces of trash from mixer trucks have hung up in the hose and caused bad whipping actions once resulting in a guy getting three days off to rehab. we all know that there are circumstances where the hose can whip and if it's a two ended hose it can really hurt someone. spare us all the macho bs about how we are so good it wont happen to me ,it can, it will its only a matter of time .everyday we roll the dice trusting our judgement and experience to carry the day . welcome to concrete pumping everyday its a 100,000$ gamble and lives on the line . lets do it as safe as reasonably possible good luck

Hopefully Alex is pulling a "Raymond" !!!!!!! If you never pull the hose off the boom, when and how do you look down the hose to see if it is wearing thru??? I know they have the holes thru the collar but that isnt the proper way to inspect your hose. You may get a bad hose and let go sooner if you are going strictly by a yardage measurement. ANd nothing wrong with having a double ender up on the building to cap it off and bring it off the building so you dont make a mess down below. 5 mins will not make or break any company or any pour, as soon as you are done with the system pour take double ender off the boom walk it out and get all residue out of hose and put on the proper hose ( single ender) finish the pour and when done do the same with your single ender hose walk out the residue (wash if possible) put your double ender back on with the cap already on that you put on in between trucks and procedde down to your pump to wash out. Definitely not rocket science and you just took a huge potential risk away from your customer and your company. Try and regain a customer after you killed an employee and make sure you tell him you were just trying to save him a few minutes....

Take of your end-hose and cap the last bend , lift down the end-hose with the safetystrap..... If you dont want to kink the end-hose...

It takes 30 sec to unhook the hose and cap the bend , so dont say it take to long time to do it !

Thought this was a real deal

http://www.mlln.net/media/hoseWhipGuard.swf

I know I am the little guy here with a line pump but I am also a placer and a finisher.  Most of the time in commercial pours I am the hose man.  To me, it isn't even the choice of the operator.  I flat out refuse to use a 2 ended hose in the air at anytime.  With nearly 20 years at this I have been laidout flat in the mud a few times from hose whip.  I've been completly covered in mud before but never hurt bad.  If you or any Pumper wouldn't change the hose The pour would stop.  I won't even let someone replace me if it comes to that.  Even the stupidest jerk that I do not like deserves to go home alive.

Also I have never worked on a Tower job that does not have a crane or a man lift (hoist).  That is a weak excuse to not change the hose.  We always have a labourer who can be spared to run down to the pump and grab a clamp or hose or coffee or what ever.  Ussually our relationship with the builder is pretty good to and their rigger will fly up what ever we ask for.  I will always assist our operators to change the hoses aswell, it just takes to long to let him do it alone. 

Just my opinion

typesdubs

Alex Wagner cares about safety. I have known him for many years and know some of his operators. They are the good guys.

His business is boom + so he runs with a double ended hose.

Perhaps the answer we get depends upon how we word the question.

I am, as always, a single ended hose guy. I will not change my mind unless or until someone proves to me that there is a good reason to change.

Most companies do boom work. A boom + situation is in the minority.

The 'single ended hose' issue is an important part of the

STAMP OUT HOSE WHIP ACCIDENTS

campaign. The process is an evolution, it will not happen all at once.

But it will happen, I know this because of all the response from the members. Face it, we are all bull headed - it is part of who we are. But when it is proven that a different way produces a better result.......... we change!

;~)

Hey guys,

I work for Putzmeister Pipe Development in Germany and because of that, end hose problems are my daily work. Let me point out three things:

1.) We (Putzmeister) permit the use of 2 ended end hoses for normal pump jobs to avoid injuries caused by the metal parts at the end of a 2 ended end hose. This attitude is conform to the german (and eurpopean) law. 

2.) Putzmeister knows, that many pump jobs need a 2 ended end hose to add delivery pipes to the boom pipeline. That's why we offer a divided end hose, consisting of a 1 m 2 ended end hose connected to a 3m normal end hose. To elongate the pipeline, you take of the 3m end hose and connect the extension to the remaining 1 m 2 ended end hose (legally). If you equip your pump with such a devided end hose, you are prepared for every pump situation, a mistake is not possible or obvious.

3. To shut-off an end hose we recommend the so called PM squeeze valve. It is possible to use the squeeze valve in combination with the devided end hose in the range of the short (1m) hose. So, you can use the squeeze valve either fpr normal pump jobs or for placement jobs without damaging the hose.

Both parts are available from every PM Dealer.

Best regards,

Karl Westermann

Wessix

Excellent solution to the problem.

Thank you very much for your input.

I wish that your pumps here in the US were so equipped.

Now that's an idea I like.

nice idea

Alex Wagner of Alexander Wagner Co.?  I saw you guys on the history channel.

[Averting my eyes in awe]

I'm a masonry contractor and the last time I needed a boom pump they used 2 ended hoses.  Now that I've joined this board and seen a few videos, never again.  I was 330 lbs @ the time and was better able to manhandle the hose better than any of my emloyees, but I wouldn't try it again.

Hi everyone

I have the 2 hoses one with 2 ended and the othe is one ended. now I only used the 2 ended one time in a year and that was just to connect the 1 ended to it. the 2 ended is still new, being hit by rubber might hurt but being hit by steel will kill or disable. in job sites where they don't wanna a miss on the job site or jobs on the 6th floor always used the one ended when i am done I reverse the spunge half way thru the hose or to the elbo thats connected to the hose. then fold and go wash.