Hello all,

I was lucky enough to go to Vegas for WOC.

After oogling and awwwwing over all the neat things I can\'t afford. I heard K.C.P. is building a 70m Pump.

The 65m was a monster I hope they are I can\'t wait to see it.

Has any one else heard this?????

That is what the word on the street is. Obviously KCP builds a great machine. Does anyone know the background story about them?

Royal Concrete Pumps

Putz is / has a 70m. It is a trailer mounted machine.

How do you know KCP builds a great machine? I would like to see the machines in operation for some time before I stated that. Not slamming in the least, but I have seen the Korean products up close, and not to say they won\'t get better, but like the little bird says, cheap, cheap,cheap.Yes they will pump concrete but for how long? The Koreans and Chinese are decades behind the Europeans.....go ahead Bob and say different, your just wrong IMHO, but that what opinions are, every one has one.

D.T.

You are right, time will tell.

I hope someone will correct my dates: Concord split the sheets with JunJin in about 2002. The concord pumps were then mfg\'d by KCP until that also went by the wayside. So the oldest KCP pumps, that I know of, are what... 7 or 8 years old.

The best teacher is history. You are right though; I do like them. The truth of the matter is that pretty much everyones\' pumps are doing a good job.

As our industry goes; I think that the machine mfg\'s have made bigger and better strides than the people that run them. They have given us dependable, robust machines and we are still folding the booms up AFTER we fold up the outriggers; go figure?!

So you can assure me of that? I craweled all over a 06 and I can assure I don\'t agree. Everything from the agitator motors, scarfed up incomplete welds and mounting plates does NOT impress me. Nor does the lack beef in outriggers and turrett just to name a few. I\'m sure Mac Donalds uses high quality control in thier burgers as well, I choose not to eat there, but what the hay, what do you expect for a dollar burger.

Happy meals, customers and stockholders

http://www.investorguide.com/stock-charts.cgi?osymb=MCD&siteid=8BD6B6FD-860E-46B8-9949-D17C8BCB359F&sid=3047&symb=MCD&time=2yr&go=Draw+Chart&uf=0&compidx=aaaaa%7E0&ma=0&maval=

My thinking is very simple. I\'m new to the owner industry.

I looked at the math, when I got the first pump there was 60,000.00 US difference in price. now covert that to Candaian money in 2005 that brought it up to 100,000.00.

In my opinion If I get 7 yrs from a machine With out major repairs, I\'m way ahead.

6.5% interest on the 100,000.00 x 4yrs that is alot out of a profit margin.

For me the service from K.C.P is superior than what I have heard. 24hrs is the longest I wait for parts anything I have needed was on a plane that day and at my door the next. What more can you ask for.

Repairs; I\'m not a genuis. for me simple is better exspecially on site.

I have a 8 year old Concord(KCP) and It works just like new.

It needs paint but concrete goes through it everyday and my customers are happy with how smooth the boom is.

What more does a person need.

Cadillac looks pretty but a escort gets the job done at a better price.

Service for me has been excellent, the equipment get the job done safely, customers happy, profit margin is higher.

Isn\'t this why we do this??

My next machine will be a KCP they have never given me a reason to stray.

But this is my way of thinking.

Tom,

The 70m Putz costs the same as

2- 65m KCP Pumps.

So when you are calculating the famous resale value; don\'t forget to kick in the SALE VALUE.

And as far as the welds are concerned; it is the difference in how much body putty you put over the bead & how thick the paint is. DT is throwing some pretty good rocks @ site sponsors, and if he will notice, we are not returning fire.

Say good stuff about Cifa - not bad stuff about the others

please

10-4 Tom

I do not want to add to any negative comments. I do want to go out on a limb here for my own knowledge. I was under the impression Jun Jin was putting pumps in the US market way before 98? I could be mistaken! How many JUN JIN went into service with the PUTZ name on it? As far as KCP coming from the same mold? Jun Jin\'s pumps still look the same. Kind of nothing like a KCP. Looking for facts please!

Bob, I am making observations not throwing rocks. Remember when Honda was cheap? Now they have the Accura Brand which competes against BMW and the likes. As far as costs go I am glad some are doing the math that means some are learning costs. There are very few of us making the kind of profits of ANY other business. Margins in the industry SUCK. So if you are lucky enough to make a 5% profit that extra 50K you may pay less for a Korean , Chinese vs a German pump, you will need to pump $500,000 more in revenue plus interest costs associated. So good work to those looking at costs associated.  I think it is impossible to warrant or to believe that you would receive those types of returns running a European Brand over a Korean or Chinese Brand. Right now resale means almost NOTHING in current market conditions. The 06 I crawled all over went for 50+ cents of original purchase price, it did not go through auction but was \"placed by concerned parties\" whom claim much higher resale of the product and have stated that to me. Well I have seen ALL manufacturers machines go for 50 cents on the dollar in these trying times. I stand by my observations and if you don’t like it tough. Everyone has an opinion. The other day I received a call from a fellow who was going to buy a brand I run. He stated to me he and his guys had crawled all over the rig and could find nothing wrong. I told him there was a 8-10 inch crack in the turrett, the machine had been shocked or dumped over, the boom was IMHO not folding right and the roteck was shot due to lack of grease. There were scabbed together welds performed by some one NOT the manufacturer and plates welded that did not belong. Nearly all damage was neglect and operator error. I had spent perhaps 3 hours looking at that machine and running it in the yard. He spent 4 hours with 3 guys, I told him precisely where to look and where the damage was, sure enough it was all there; I saw the machine a year ago and this was from memory. But what the hay, what do I know? I do know this, there will be manufactures leave this market and in a way this has already happened. You know sell a pump with your logo and stop the losses in manufacturing the product.

A little more history for you Bob, when did the Germans change from rack and pinion to Roteck and what size machines and why? Schwing went from a 31M to the 32M in the late 80s that’s been nearly 20 years. The story was that the 31m were too much stress for rack and pinion hence the change to Roteck but the 28s were fine not too much stress.

They believe that the turret problems in the old style 31m were directly related to the rack and pinion. So now these others just changed the 40m and 38m over from rack and pinion to Roteck….Hmmmm, wonder why.

Some more good history, Thanks! When is someone going to wright the book? HISTORY OF CONCRETE PUMPING

They (KCP) changed because they had a couple of the rack and pinion machines fail. I understand it was a heat treat problem but I don\'t really know for sure. The change was to eliminate the possibility of that happening again. So it was a safety and marketing decision. As you see (above) not all German mfg\'s changed. Schwing did for much the same reason KCP and Concord did. Putz just engineered around the problem.

 Hard to believe that they can make a 40 that weighs the same as a 32.Something has to be sacrificed.Probably handling characteristics of the boom are horrible and they even might have that stinkin reducer attached firmly to the boom.I would prefer a good handling,solid machine,instead of a light-weight fly rod.

Todd will probably have my scalp (no loss as to hair) for the Putz commercial. I thought that it was appropriate to the thread.............. sorry Todd

;~) 

bisley57

I watched B-52 bombers take off from Anderson Air Force Base on Guam for Arc Light missions over N.V.N. There were \'dolly wheels\' on the end of the wings so they would clear the ground while taking off........ my point is that some things are engineered to flex. How much would a boom need to weigh to be rigid?

 All is good but I still wonder what is sacrificed to achieve minimal weights,is it in the material used?

bisley57

Blame these guys.

http://www.ssabtunnplat.com/templates/PageCol.aspx?id=2436

Well Putz is always on the leading edge, so I assume they want to be the first ones to crackup again. I have not liked their disipline as well, those posts were removed, in fact you called me over them. IMHO they are moving in the wrong direction....so how\'s the boom bounce boys?

Not slinging mud here but, there were some VERY good reasons that Concord & KCP \"parted ways\".  ALL, again ALL manufactures have had their \"learning curves\" that they have gone through and most end up making a much better product - Concord is no exception.  Concord does not \'sub\' out anything any more.  The Concord machine is a true Concord built product from start to finish.

Tell us the scoop! I am sure we would all like to know.

YES every mfg\' in this bizz has had their bad moments. It is part of the process.

Good to hear from you Concord USA! This is always exciting industry stuff! I speak only for myself! So I have been dieing to know how Concord Is getting their pumps now! Sounds like you are BUILDING them! What location and can we get a pic of a new machine? Is it the style of the KCP Turret? I would not be in a pump today if it was not for Mario. My journey to get a pump began with him.

It is really cool to hear from the sponsors!

I already stated my thoughts and have watched the \"big two\" with the new fangled light booms and I am NOT impressed. IMHO they are moving in the wrong direction. On the other hand they have been building booms a long long time. Both of the big two have boom inspectors constantly on the road doing repairs that have cost them millions and keeping track of where the problem areas are. When there is a problem they certainly seem to stand up to the plate. I know of one campainge that cost one of the big two around 100k per machine to fix, a two year program. I also remember my horse heads in the early 90s and having all of them replaced on my units. Can and will the Asian manufactures do the same? Only time will tell.

it is unfortunate, but Business and that\'s any business is trying to shave as much as possible to increase profits. Nothing in this day and age is \"built like it used to be\".

Cars Trucks Planes If companies build them like a \"rock\" sales will slow down. Things now will not be the same in 20 yrs. I talked to a friend who is the crane business. \"He bases every thing on a 7yr plan. pay for it asap so you can sell it before all the types of flexible metals fatigue. steel will flex only so long before it say\'s I\'m done. Get it out of you hands because you won\'t want the liability or the repair bill\". 

In a way he is right. technology comes at a cost. lifespan.

But that\'s my Opinion.

Well he is right and cranes simply have load /compression fatigue. They do not experience the side to side movements and bounce that pumps do. But cranes do last much much longer and are way less to maintain. Not only that ,they pretty much get way more money than the pumps do per hour per dollar invested...but weee are soooooo much smarter than they are! my ass.....I am not resposible for dip s**t pricing need to look to the big boys running 52s & 61s here for $3.00 no hourly no mob, smart they are! the must have their own Yoda.

DT

Seriously???

A 61m for a flat-ass $3.00 per yard?

We got that for a 90foot Titan in the 70s

Marcus,

Where have you been hiding? Long time, no post! Glad you are back among the living.

I must say I love the concord that I run. No Matter who the heck built it it will flat out put some mud on the ground. The boom is awsome. I have ran the newer putz and was hardly impressed as I am with this pump. I love 3 sticks and hate those silly twist knob remotes. All of these pumps are good machines, but I do believe the 2 big companise better watch out.