There has been some discussion lately about "Super Booms" or "Texas Booms".

I am refering to the practice of having a crane support extra horizonal pipe sections to increase the overall reach of a boom pump. This discussion is NOT about crane supported treeme pipe for extending the down reach of the attached system.

I am looking for some feedback on this subject. What is your take on this practice? How do you each handle this within your company?

My attitude is that even though it may be a handy solution to an immediate problem it is probably a bad idea. The potential for disaster is too great for the pumper. The contractor may see the benefit; the pumper should see only the potential liability.

What are your feelings?

I agree with you.  It should not be done.  I would, though, be interested in how they are supporting the additional pipeline, how much they have out, and how they are plugging into it.

It does not seem like a risk a company owner would be eager to take on.

What a great topic!

Having extra pipe attached to the tip, the most delicate section of the boom, then putting the success of the pour into the hands of both the crane operator and the pump operator's communication skills (please, let's hope it's a radio) sounds like disaster.  I don't think it's 'if' there will be an accident - but 'when'.  I've had a few hundred feet of hose off an extended boom and then a crane lifting the last few so the laborors didn't have to drag it on the ground - but I didn't think someone would be dumb enough to attach pipe to extend the reach. 

Think about all the people that have to coordinate a manuever like that - 1. the contractor 2. Jobsite super 3. concrete pump sales/mgmt 4. Crane operator 5. pump operator. 6. Jobsite Safety guy 

I'm sure there might be a few people I've overlooked - but between all of these folks there had to be a meeting over how to accomplish this...yet the job still happens??!!  I would hope it raises red flags with someone?  At least the pump operator could see the potential problem.  I'm sure the meeting goes something like this:  Contractor thinks up the idea - asks the super if it can be done.  The super, not wanting to be a nay-sayer and keeping consistant with his true ass-kissing style, says no problem, I'll set up a meeting with the pump company.  The pump salesman, with probably no pump experience to his credit - intimidated by the conractor and scared to lose the job to someone else, says: we can handle this because company 'X' does this down south all the time.  The crane and pump operators aren't at the meeting at all because they're out working (they'll be briefed the day of the pour on what's happening).  The contractor's safety guy won't know what they're talking about anyway - but as long as everyone's got their hardhats and safety glasses on he's OK with it - besides, he got the only apple fritter out of the box of donuts the pump salesman brought.  So he's happy.

How many lbs can the average tip section hold? 350#?  Probably a little more, but the manufacturer's got a specified load limit.  If that communication isn't crystal clear between the crane and pump operator - how much more load can the boom and outriggers take before it either breaks/bends the tip or causes the pump to become 'tippy'?

Again, great topic, Bob.

I hope that this will open other operators' eyes to potential problems.  When a contactor and your bosses tell you your going to do something that sounds dangerous and unsafe - it probaby is.  Say no.  You can always find another job.

Back when a 65ft boom was the norm, and we were all grasping at ways to make pumping/not dumping the way to go; this was common practice. Today the 60 61 63 & 65 meter booms have extended our reach and our insurance companies and concerned owners have extended our grasp of the dangers.

I think that part of the reason that this 'superboom' practice is still in use is 99% of the time it works....................... that day.

The damage to the pump boom and the crane boom are not fatal at that time. The respective machines finish the pour and then go on to do other work. The stress or flaw being not apparent and instead of crashing to the ground; waits, like a cancer to become obvious at some future time. It is sometimes hard to remember where the trouble started as you are confronted with (three months later) your failed boom laying on who knows what - or whom.

I wish everyone that has had one of their booms in use as a 'superboom' would have it inspected by a real professional. I don't mean a person that has taken a class somewhere and has a bit of paper that says he is a certified boom inspector. I am talking about a real professional.

I hope that the ACPA or the manufactures association, CPMA, comes out solidly against this practice. It will then be much easier for the pump salesman to say "No, sorry, our industry association prohibits that."

We really know better.

Separate related question.

What authority should take an official stance on this issue?

Since the issue is predominantly an issue of stresses placed on the boom structure; should the CPMA be the people that say "yea or nay"?

I mean really, now think about this.

SEPERATE / RELATED ISSUE

Should the length of the superstructure be a deciding factor? Should the pour rate? Is this relative?

Is the whole idea just bad business?

whatcha think??????????????????

The CPMA should take the official stance and the ACPA should back them up 100%.

Even if the job goes perfectly - then, 6 months later, the boom fails and hurts/kills someone.  Now an insurance company will be sniffing around to see what's happened.  Even if the 'superboom' job had nothing to do with the failure, all fingers will point back to that particular job.  Who's the authority with all the r&d on the booms?  CPMA most likely is.  A little research into the history of the jobs that the pump/boom in question was involved with and the CPMA & ACPA will see that the pump company did something that wasn't within the load or design limits of the boom.  When an accident happens, the finger pointing begins and ultimately someone's going to lose.

The length of the structure and pour rate both have some significance - especially if the crane operator zigs when the pump operator zags - and I'm sure that would never happen... 

Yes, I think it's bad business.  If the manufacturers thought it safe and possible to build 86M booms, then I think they would have done it.  I don't think that a contractor has the right to create his own because it might save a little time or require 8 less laborers on the jobsite for the pour that particular day.  It's bad business and poor judgement.

Splash, (good name given the topic)

As I posted before, 99% of the time it works just fine................ BUT.

We (pumpers) have enough exposure every day to make a normal person just scream. First, you have a job pushing rocks thru pipes, then you dangle hoses full of concrete over peoples heads-cars-houses, etc. All that is really crazy, but you are for all practical purposes more or less in control of your own destiny. Now, since that isn't scary enough you want to have a crane operator, that is not AT ALL under your control or employ and have him attach HIS crane to some system hanging off of your boom.

So you are pouring along and you zig and he doesn't. Perhaps he just holds still, perhaps he booms the other way. What part of boom stress is covered by your manufactures warranty?

1 5" x 12' hose or 1 5x4 reducer and one 10' 4" hose............. hanging straight down. That is it. Read your safety information you received when you purchased your pump. It doesn't say that you can tweak your boom sideways or assume a greater load for a little bit. It doesn't say you can stretch the hose 10 or 20 feet beyond your tip elbows. You can't. And it doesn't say anywhere in your operators manual that your operator is smart enough to even know what stress he is placing on the boom. He doesn't need to know that because he should never do it.

This superboom deal probably won't snap your boom in half or turn it into a bannana, but it might.

What do you charge for the additional risk?

What does the disclaimer look like to free you from the potential liability?

This drives me nuts. (I know, short trip) but really, let us just think about your 10 or 20 feet of hanging connective hose. If it is beside your boom it is pulling it to that side. If it is in front of your boom it is efectively adding length , and LOTS of extra stress to the boom.

So my question to you is.

How can it NOT damage or jeopardize the structural integrity of your boom???

AND REMEMBER... YOU DO THIS ON PURPOSE

AND FOR FREE!

For any of you legal eagles out there. My postings are my own personal opinion. Nothing more and nothing (well sometimes) less. We are all entitled to that. Unless Bu$h changes it with a signing statement.

;~)

I wish you well. May your luck continue forever.

A very smart man once told me something that has made my job easier, our customers safer and our accidents fewer. It is:

PREVENT THE PREVENTABLE PROBLEMS

....been there, pumped that, been in the business longer than anyone in the world...blah-blah-blah.   I wish I had a nickel for every time I've heard that.  Some of the scariest operators I've met have been the one's that have been in the business since the dawn of time.  This isn't the same industry that it was in 1974 - or 1994.  It's constantly evolving.  Maybe there should be a sideways load rating for the booms - the manufacturer's probably didn't think people would use them like excavators.

You can draw a similar camparison with the trucking industry:  Say, Brand X Widget Co. needs to ship 5 trailers of merchandise from L.A. to Chicago.  The trucking company meets with Brand X's Owner and wants the trucking company to just buckle all 5 trailers to a single tractor to save on fuel and operator wages.  They run loads like this through Australia's outback and Alaska all the time - so what's the big deal?  Great idea - is it safe? not really.  Is it mechanically possible to accomplish?  Sure.  Will it cause any immidiate damage to the tractor?  probably not. So what's keeping us from doing this??...Oh, I forgot, the government regulates the trucking industry - so this would be illigal in the states.

Maybe that's what's on it's way to this industry?  A little government regulation?  That might happen with the right combination of accidents or deaths from doing 'super-boom' type activities. 

I don't think this a matter of opinion.  There's a right and wrong way of doing things.  Do we need a government concrete pumping agency to tell us just that?  Let's hope it doesn't come to that.  We should be smarter than that.  Like Bob said, Prevent the Preventable.

I will say that the company I work for no longer does this.

That fact makes me very happy.

Ok here is the deal, I have info coming but here is the what all the info says from what I have heard.

Schwing, Putz and the crane Association as well as the ACPA are completely against the practice. NO WAY NO HOW type of thing.  I will be posting all the info in the next couple of weeks but until than contact Scwhing, Putz and anyone who is in the leadership in our industry.

OK,

So if what Todd says is true............ whatcha gonna do??

If the CPMA says it is 100% against and the ACPA says it is also 100% against WILL YOU STOP??????

My best guess is that if, after hearing the CPMA and the ACPA and the crane people all came out against this practice, you do it and someone is hurt, you will be way screwed.

please don't do it any more.

Thanks