does anyone know what liability if any do u have if u train someone on a boom pump

Someone in the company has to train a boom operator.  Is your company a member of the ACPA?  Train them and have them take the ACPA test.  If they pass, you've done your part...  I wouldn't think that the trainer would be liable...I could be wrong.

Raymond said it pretty well.In addition when your training (we all know the drill) your teaching fundimentals.Once the company says after 1-2 weeks is he ready? At that point should they choose to turn him/her loose "it's all on them".

Just before leaving pumping I had the dubiouse honor of attempting to train one.He was 3 weeks into it and I felt extremly uneasy.I informed the suppervisor of my concerns (scaaaared sh***less).Well I left the company,heard he bent the tip section on a 28m.My conclussion upon learning his is simply put

sucks to be them

If someone is ready in 1-2 weeks they are a pump god!!!

The Walmart greeter can pass the ACPA test.

All Concrete pumping services should have an established training program that not only confirms an operators ability it makes sure an operator has a thorough understanding of established company policy in operation, maintenance and safety.

DCPump   

I couldn't agree with you more about the ACPA test.  If my response above were in person, you would have noted a smirk on my face and a very sarcastic tone in my voice.

Training an operater should be done by some one how can teach I have had some people that are great at what they do but can not teach any one

ACPA has or had vidios about your day as a pumper and safty

Interesting,I can personally name several of the old timers that did it with 7-14 days training,so lets not be coy here.There are how many pump companies in the usa? I can tell you there is enough difference as how we say tomato.

If a trainer can't spot a wash out in 7-14 days he should consider the greeter position at walmart.Ask yourself how many people posess a CDL that shouldn't be allowed to push a shopping cart.How long does a company have to invest in training? Is there a set time? I would almost wager my 12 year old grandson could pass the acpa test,any takers?

So simply hiding behind a test just doesn't cut it with me.If the trainer doesn't put his all into it reflections occure.It is firmly on the managements shoulder weather to let a new hire out on his own.

Bob sent me this a while ago, It covers more than any other training lists I have ever seen. GOOD STUFF!

Thanks again for that check list Bob.

dc pump     raymond

couldn't agree more about the acpa test, it's a joke

just discontinued my membership, tired of the same old names,   lack of forward looking ideas,         talk good at the shows and meetings and on the job sites it's a different thing    ( pricing and safety )

not afraid to sign off

steve

tristatepumping@gmail.com

I would hope that by now everyone would know how I feel about training new operators. The length of time that it takes is determined by how effectively the trainer gets his message across and the relative ability of the trainee to absorb the material.

G-man said it all; “price and safety.”

Until such time as our industry charges enough to pay for real training we will have less than properly trained operators running pumps. Operators that have the ability to put out the outriggers and wiggle the boom around will be operating our pumps.  All businesses must see a return for their money in order for them to survive. If the money is not there, the training will not be done. If we are to be a safer industry we must raise the price of pumping to pay for it.

As to the original question; if you are the trainer and working for a company you only have a moral responsibility to make sure that your trainee is competent before turning him loose. If you are the owner of a company the answer changes.

As long as the pump gods smile on you, and the semi-trained meathead that is operating your pump doesn’t hurt anyone between the time you turn him loose and the time he figures it out for himself; you are blessed. If that same person finds himself in the position of injuring or killing himself or someone else; your questionable training program will turn into act 1 – scene 1 in front of a judge and jury; with the attorney from your insurance company wishing he was somewhere else.

If you really want a safer industry……………. Charge more for your service and train better!

ps;

The un-trained or poorly trained operator is not at fault; he is just trying to earn a living. The company that put a poorly trained operator on a pump by himself is the problem.

Don't blame the player, blame the game

Well put bob , i think to be an operator you have to spend some quality time at the other end , there you will learn the basics because you are there ( if your eyes are open) I have found people who walk in and go straight to operating take 3 times longer to teach !!

Not there falt really but i think to be a good operator you first need to be a good hose man, if you have no idea of what the hoseman is doin how are you supposed to work together or make it easyer on them ..

A bad operator can make a good hoseman look bad an vice versa .... 

What you say is true but it is a very small part of what it takes to be a professional. I am more interested in [for a lack of a better word] instincts. Instinctive knowledge, experience and the ability to rapidly make the correct decisions. Some people learn faster than others and the trainers need to be able to recognize that. It goes way past making the hose man comfortable, which too many times is the way that a company decides who is ready to be turned loose on the public.

Bob!!!

Lower the font, you look like your yelling at everybody!!!

Raymond- Me too.

G-Man- We chose not to renew either. We could start a whole new Blog on the reasons why!

Just curious. Do you feel that the trainee should go with different trainers to get different perspectives each day, or stick with the same trainee for the full training period?

As much as I want to think experienced operators are infaluable,were not.I do agree that a switch up in trainers is good for the trainee.We all miss,overlook,assume something.The one point I would mention is not to alienate the prospective operator by making them affraid to ask questions.

Point well taken and appriecated

dc pump

money wasn't the issue,       but why do Schwing and Putz  carry so much weight in the ACPA

why hasn't anyone had the guts to propose mandatory safety rules, if you violate there will be fines and penalties (proof of that stupidity, even with all the evidence there are still those that think two ended hoses are OK)

why hasn't anyone had the guts to propose manadatory training, similar to crane operators

of the ""same old folks "' year after year,  why don't you ever see more discussions about pricing, or perhaps more educational seminars about cost accounting,   

why don't you ever see more initiatives to promote more pumping,   from education of the ready mix companies to enforcing codes    ( we don't need a pump,   just wet it up and shoot it across the county !!!! )

Perhaps the folks on the ACPA need to look in the mirror, if they are only doing it to get some plaque or a line on their headstone,   then get out of the way and get some fresh blood in there !!!!!

steve

tristatepumping@gmail.com

DCPump 

I apologize, I am not yelling. What I am is 1/2 blind. This is the best way for me to see what I am typing. My wish is that y'all would use a larger font so I would not need to squint to read it. ;~)

G-Man

I agree with some of what you say and as much as I have to say I'm not a big fan of the ACPA right now either, They are an association and they do supply some great video and support tools toward safety meeetings and safety training. However it isn't, and shouldn't be their position to govern your company

That being said I think it is the responsibility of the individual company to certify an operators ability to safely perform and maintain the equipment he is responsible for. In our company for example an operator can come in with ten years experience and we still send him out with one of our best to verify his ability prior to ever sending him on his own.

In my opinion I also think the concrete pump should be held to the same scrutiny that a crane is. They should have the same inspections, certifications and training as the crane industry. At this point for the cranes this falls to local and state jurisdictions.

Bob I was just playing with you! You have to admit it looks like your yelling

THIS IS YELLING

This is just needs new glasses ;~)

G-MAN,

You are 100% correct. When I was a young operator I was a walking health hazard !

That is why I preach safety, safety, safety.

I have done it all wrong and then saw the light..... and have seen my friends messed-up for no reason other than they were not as lucky as I was. Play it safe, your family needs you in one piece. ;~)

The newly trained operator didn't fill the water box or grease the back end for two weeks,and said,"I don't know why the s-tube shaft is as big as a pencil and the thingy cans are all scarred up,it wasn't on my check-out list".

bisley57

Yea, really. You wouldn't want to do anything positive like add to the check out list and be part of the solution. No one has all the answers. We can all key in new items

Greasing and watering is way ahead of my priorities than calling dispatch when I am done.............

Bob

THIS IS SCREAMING

This is just yelling

bisley57

The checklist as you see it is an outline. When a good trainer gets ahold of it he usually make it applicable to whatever type pump he is using. It is not uncommon to see a 'finished' checklist grow to twice the size of the one you see that T.T posted. He fills in the many details of the outline. It is a 100% free bit of training literature; so you always get your money's worth. If yours has more detail please post it for everyone's use.

Im sticking to my guns!!

You learn at least 80% of what you really need to know by being on the hose and watching the operator, evetything from how to deal with customers to making sure the water box has water, the arse end and boom is greased , making those crutial desitions , being on time looking the part and rest of it , anyone who comes into the industry needs to get on the hose and learn and learn from the dirty end theres no better way to learn..

Also the operator has much more time to see potential in the person , ive trained a few guys and thats how ive done it , tryed tested and passed ! Ive also left a few on the hose and not botherd because i havent seen potential, its harsh but i belive its the best way ! Someone who wants to learn will follow you like a bad smell they ask all the questions even the stupid ones ( if they exist ) they also give there opinion on how to apoach a job! Shows there thinking , let them have input give advise and in no time you will have made a good safe operator out of them !!

Teaching takes time and everyone is different!

Bob your big scary blue text kinda turns me on !! LOL JK :~P

 As of January 1st 2009, the ACPA certification test has been updated! The old test and study guide is out dated and is no longer to be used!

 I dont know how much of it has changed or what's been added but atleast it's finally been update? It may seem like simple, easy material but all of it is stuff that we did'nt know on our first day.  

too tall,

respectfully.......

i could get an ten year old girl to pass the test

until there is some ""meat "" to the process, ie. no working a boom until time on line pump, no big boom until time on a ""small "" boom, etc.

annual or bi annual continueing education credits ( not on line, but at a regional site, NOT conducted by a pump company but by a safety company or the responsible examining authority......

steps such as these will do at least four things, One, increase the safety aspect of pumping, TWO help to raise prices,   THREE,  eliminate the riff-raff in the industry, and FOUR,   and most important,  help us all to MAKE MORE MONEY !!!!!!

steve

tristatepumping@gmail.com

 I get what you're saying Gman, The first test I took was given to me by a guy that did'nt even have a CDL? Hopefully the new version has more usefull info and some "what to do if..." questions. Not to mention some big boom and five section info. The old test was only up to fifty two meter booms and nothing on five section booms. Included with the bigger boom info needs to be some wieght distribution and soil condition updates also. And more technical info for todays machines and technology.

 Regardless of how easy the certification was or may still be, We should all still be certified just for professional purposes. Do you realize how many operators have no idea what the difference is between piston side and rod side? (too many) If more operators were certified they would know this because it is in the old study guide. For some of us it's easy stuff and common sense, we can tell what it does just by looking at it. For others it's a bit harder to learn and comprehend. NO one should run a pump without knowing the basic mechanical principals of one. And that knowledge usually comes from a line pump... the basics.

 I do agree, the cerification study guide should be as thick as a pump manual or atleast 3 or 4 times bigger than a little pocket sized hand book. (and I dont mean larger print!)

Drew,

We don’t get to make the rules. If I did then dragging line and running a trailer pump would be required before anyone was allowed to operate any boom. I worked on the work end of a hose for a couple of years before I had a job as a trailer pump operator. After the trailer – then I got to run a boom. I knew about concrete, clamps, reducers, system, priming, cleanout and how to actually pump concrete before the experience with a boom. My very first day, and every day after that I was never trained on “how to” be a boom operator. The only reason that I never killed anyone is because of the other experience and luck.

Lots and lots of people do not agree and that is their right. If it was up to me to make the rules; every single operator would need one year [minimum] on a variety of trailer pumps before he ever touched a remote…. BUT

We don’t get to make the rules.

Sorry Bob maybe im missing the point , over here theres no real rules you have to follow, if your a compitent operator you can teach people ! We dont really have a ACPA or anything like that, although we should! We still have to sit a test and all that stuff but theres really nothing for us !

Hoseman, did you say hoseman? what the hell does a hoseman have to do with the ability to run a pump ? never heard this training technique,i've ran linepumps , boompumps ,ballvalve pumps never once when I was on the hose did I learn anything except its rough being a hoseman with a trainee on the pump,linepumps before booms learn to pump concrete before you learn to operate the boom, thats how it should go,in my experience the ops that come from linepumps do not struggle like the ones that go straight to the boom,but hoseman cmon you gotta be kidding rite next thing youll have to have 5 years finishing exp 2 years ready mix exp and bam your a qualified pump operator in just 2 weeks of training dont think so,linepumps to booms the way it should be learn the art before you start painting the picture itll come out much prettier in the end

oh and the checklist is the best available, like was said a good trainer will always add to any training list put in front of him,not just teach what is written and I know bisley57 knows that hes just ragging on bob , because if greasing wasnt taught you wouldnt be doing your job as a trainer, take a look into that mirror before we start throwing stones